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Talk:GNY-004B Black Gundam Plutone
Info Clarity Guys, I need some fact checking here. Some paragraphs and history added in by editors said that Black Plutone was a variant replica of the original. The wreckage remains of Plutone was collected by Innovators and was used to create Black Plutone. This unit would then heavily influence the creation of the GNZ series. Now there's conflict over the data, some saying Innovators merely accessed Veda and just built a replica without all that trouble. So which one is true? Taikage - Admin 04:56, April 10, 2011 (UTC) :So you're doubting me about this, huh? Here's the exact wording from the copy I got. :00F Volume 4 Chapter 17 page 49: :Bring Stabity: This unit was recreated from data found inside Veda to be used as a reference for units currently under production :00F Volume 4 page 170: :The Black Plutone used by the Innovators was a recreation of the original... :--Bronx01 (talk| ) 05:07, April 10, 2011 (UTC) So Plutone actually did go boom. It makes sense, considering Plutone was officially destroyed. I'll make the necessary changesGaeaman 788 - The sign of Zeta leads to a dead end 05:10, April 10, 2011 (UTC) Bronx01: It's not a matter of doubt, it's a matter of getting the facts straight and Plutone is one of the most confusing articles I had to work on due to bad information. I wanted to clear any reasonable doubt so there's no mistakes and no confusion about what's stated because I was using whatever information was given before; I don't know if me or whoever is right or wrong. Since you can verify it, great, then whoever said Plutone was salvaged to create Black Plutone was wrong and I used the wrong data. Please don't consider my questioning as doubt, it's just my habit to trust things when its factually stated or agreed upon by major opinion. People can say and believe things with confidence and trust, but that doesn't always mean it's 100% accurate; I like to seek alternatives to reach similar conclusions to solidly prove everything. Taikage - Admin 05:20, April 10, 2011 (UTC) :Then the same to me, that's why I am persistent on that bit. The one I am mostly curious, is where did you get this info, that you stick to it very much. There wasn't any clear citation about it too, but you were more inclined to it. --Bronx01 (talk| ) 05:29, April 10, 2011 (UTC) My life these days are pretty hectic. It's either work or studies, writing time and personal time is limited so I use whatever I can quickly gather to write a thoughtful page. That's why all my edits are shorter and taking longer to complete recently. The history edits were usually edited by trustworthy senior members; I take edits in good faith and I figured even if I was wrong, someone would correct it. When you changed my edit, I simply asked for confirmations instead of losing extra study time over source digging. At least we got that out of the way though. Taikage - Admin 05:44, April 10, 2011 (UTC) :I did made a reasoning back then and you just edited over it. It could have been over long time ago. Anyway, things aside, good luck to your work and studies. --Bronx01 (talk| ) 05:59, April 10, 2011 (UTC) That situation was different. That was a debate over categories. You wanted to move a sub-sub-category from the history of one of the Meisters to sub-catgory. You had your reasons and I had mine, but I felt you were moving it out of subject. I over ruled you until I had a majority to agree with me and for the most part, they did. I apologize if I ruffled with feathers with you because it's my habit to keep things enacted until proven wrong. Taikage - Admin 15:35, April 10, 2011 (UTC) :You need to chill. I am not taking about the distant past. I have moved on. I am talking about the Black Plutone/Plutone. --Bronx01 (talk| ) 15:39, April 10, 2011 (UTC) I'm fine, I'm not upset nor replying back with any strong emotions. Any case, with Black Plutone, I was trying to edit my version and while submitting it, wiki tells me someone already over-edit the parts I was working on. It doesn't actually tells me who did it, only what's currently there. Given the situation, I either write it over or work with what's added to complete the article. It's not about over-ruling your edits as to me trying to finish my edition without someone else changing it before I'm done. I always put up a "edit" warning on the top to tell editors to give me time to finish it first and then let them critique my stuff, but there's always eager editors diving in before I'm ever done. Usually I wouldn't know it was you or another senior editor until I review the page history. Taikage - Admin 16:10, April 10, 2011 (UTC) Given the information that's present from 00F and P, there's not much else we can do with Black Plutone I feel. Since its mostly the same as Plutone, are there any other Gundam pages that you feel need work Taikage? I think Astraea Abulhool, and Sadalsuud are fine, along with the Season 1 Gundams. Gaeaman 788 - The sign of Zeta leads to a dead end 17:09, April 10, 2011 (UTC) I feel every page needs to be refined. I trust Bronx01 to handle the Character histories and you with grammar corrections, so I'm managing the MS pages. The biggest issue I felt lacking was a proper description as to why the Gundams are presented the way they are. Like why certain cool aspects of the GNY series never made it to the GN series. Astraea is more adaptable and versatile than Exia (in terms of its vast collection of weapons vs just blades), Abulhool is far capable in stealth missions than Kyrios, and Plutone actually has a life-saving system that can save the Meister's life, but it was never used in the 3rd-5th Generation Gundams. Doesn't that stuff baffle you? I still can't solve the reason why CB engineers wouldn't create their own emergency ejection and escape system to preserve the life of their Meisters. The closest thing I could reason was that either it was too costly or simply they believe in "going down with the ship." Maybe it's just me, but after when I'm done with a edit, don't you feel like you understand the Gundam a little better? Taikage - Admin 17:29, April 10, 2011 (UTC) :Plutone's core fighter technology was still used in Virtue in form of Nadleeh. The core fight was still too risky since it doesn't have any combat capabilities, and the CB's immediate answer to that is to make the escape pod in form of an MS, to provide extra fighting chance. Not the best evolution, but they did improved it further, look at Seraphim. --Bronx01 (talk| ) 17:56, April 10, 2011 (UTC) :Well that makes sense. So Nadleeh/Seraphim arent really "Core Fighters" in the traditional sense, but the technology contined...sort ofGaeaman 788 - The sign of Zeta leads to a dead end 18:08, April 10, 2011 (UTC) Ha! Tell that to Innovators and Ali Al-Saachez. Their lives were saved several times due to that unarmed escape pod they made in their GNZ series. I never once considered Nadleeh as the successor version of the Core Fighter, more like a stripped-down Plutone; Seraphim and Seravee II, possibly. Not even going about Virtue, but what about the rest of the Meisters? Lockon might have lived if they created that ejection system on Dynames. Look at Abulhool, that thing can fully disguise itself in combat situations, even can go completely invisible, but Kyrios has none of those features. Granted, Kyrios is a far greater capable fighter in either forms, but the beneficial aspects of Abulhool were never transferred either. Taikage - Admin 18:36, April 10, 2011 (UTC) :In Season 1 perspective, it make sense. With the 3 superpowers wanting to get their hands on info about Celestial Being and the Gundams, Core fighter is not going to be so lucky just for any enemy to let it escape in the battlefield. And Lockon still won't survive that fight, as he wanted to kill Ali so badly and vice versa. Also, Abulhool disguising, where is the info for that? Stealth Field breaks down in high speed during the early stages --Bronx01 (talk| ) 19:00, April 10, 2011 (UTC) I refuse to believe that CB didn't have the skills to create a ejection system that would've secured the safety of its pilot. Perhaps a armed core fighter this time or even a GN Field enabled pod to ensure escape. As for Lockon and Dynames, you may have a point, but that's all theory. The ejection system was designed to leave behind the Gundam due to severe damage, so Lockon may not have a choice but to live and fight another day. As for Abulhool, I think you meant its Optical Camouflage vs Stealth Field. I meant that the unit is a perfectly disguised 5th generation fighter, but Kyrios is a custom-made fighter, making it far more visually detectable. It doesn't even have the Optical Camouflage to hide. Don't you think it would've been better to keep the positive aspects? Taikage - Admin 19:27, April 10, 2011 (UTC) Kyrios probably does have the optical camo it just never used it. Abulhool's physical appearance as a jet is good for flyover missions, but the design of the fighter itself isn't really conducive to interventions. So it would be more beneficial to just have a tranforming Gundam that can actually fight than having a Gundam that could infiltrate bases overhead and have almost no defenses for itself. For Lockon and a possible escape system, knowing Lockon, he probably wouldn't have used the escape system in fighting Ali since he was determined to take him down. If anything, Lockon probably would have just rammed the core fighter into the Zwei if Dynames had one.Gaeaman 788 - The sign of Zeta leads to a dead end 19:38, April 10, 2011 (UTC) : LOL I mixed up the Stealth field and Optical Camouflage. I mean optical camouflage. About the appearance, those who first seen Kyrios doesn't even know it can transform. So there. It's appearance kind of became more distinguishable because of repeated armed interventions. : Oh yeah, the other reason they didn't remained with the Core fighter was the Plutone Incident. --Bronx01 (talk| ) 21:34, April 10, 2011 (UTC) : The Plutone incident was just an overload of the GN Drive right? So what does the Core Fighter have to do with that, besides having Chall escape?Gaeaman 788 - The sign of Zeta leads to a dead end 23:58, April 10, 2011 (UTC) :It's more of that the system that is responsible in ejecting the Core Fighter malfunctioned. --Bronx01 (talk| ) 00:11, April 11, 2011 (UTC) :The Plutone Core Fighter ejection did sort of jammed so it is imperfect and the reason why the did not implemented it. The closest CB successor in that regard is Seraphim, which is an ejectable backpack MS that the pilot can transfer to. Nadleeh very likely doesnt count as a core fighter since its essentially the base MS that wears the Virtue armor. Still, I recall there was some discussion about a possible escape mechanism of Seraphim that was seen in S223 a few years ago. -SuperSonicSP 07:37, April 11, 2011 (UTC) :You could say that Nadleeh is an sort of an next thing to the Core fighter. Anyway, for future citation, here are where I got this: :Gundam 00P Season Season File No.17: New Gundam, where it was said that the MS hidden within and MS is developed from the Core fighter concept, which is one of the technology of the prototype Gundam Plutone. ::Could someone put that in the references for Nadleeh?Gaeaman 788 - The sign of Zeta leads to a dead end 14:15, April 11, 2011 (UTC) :Gundam 00F Volume 4 Consonance of 00F page 170 :"The existence of the Nadleeh could be said to be an extension of the escape vehicle." :--Bronx01 (talk| ) 12:33, April 11, 2011 (UTC)